Managing capacity — it’s something that has been discussed since the COVID-19 pandemic and continues to be important to the Disney parks today.
Fantasyland
Oftentimes, things like the Park Pass system are heavily discussed when it comes to managing capacity, but things like Genie+ can also help balance where people are in the park. During Disney’s earnings call for their first quarter of fiscal year 2023, we got a number of updates related to things in the parks. But one key thing CEO Bob Iger discussed was managing capacity.
During the earnings call, Iger announced a new Avatar experience coming to Disneyland, theme park pricing, and more. But his comments on capacity were particularly interesting.
Iger noted that he felt some of Disney’s pricing strategies were alienating people. He then shared that Disney is taking some steps to change things with its pricing, citing Disneyland as an example where the resort’s cheapest park ticket will now be available for more days out of the year. After discussing that change, Iger said they’d be “going to manage capacity very, very carefully.” (Quotes obtained thanks to the transcript from The Motley Fool)
Crowds
Iger continued by saying that some of the changes they’re making at Disney (which seemed to be a reference to the increased amount of cheaper Disneyland tickets), have enabled Disney to “shift [the] mix…from annual pass holders to people who may come just once in a lifetime or once.”
Iger said that standard ticket guests (not annual passholders), “tend to be good customers of ours because of their per-cap spending when they’re there.” That’s something we’ve heard discussed before. In a 2020 earnings call, Bob Chapek stated that “someone who travels and stays for five to seven days is marginally more valuable to the business than someone who comes in on an annual pass” because those with an annual pass may “stay[] a day or two and consume[] less merchandise and food and beverage.”
Crowds
Switching back to the February call, Iger shared that some of the changes they’ve made in shifting the mix from Annual Passholders to other guests have helped Disney “manage capacity without…doing too much damage to the bottom line.”
Interestingly, Disney does seem to be focused on this idea of balancing things more between Passholders and ticketed guests. Chapek once said that Annual Passholders sometimes use the parks “as their personal playground,” which Disney loves. But he said that they also have to make sure that there’s “room in the park for the family from Denver that comes once every five years.”
The idea of restricting capacity more strictly when it comes to Passholders has been a point of contention for some though. The Park Pass reservation system’s limit on Passholder reservations spurred a lawsuit as it relates to Disneyland’s Magic Key passes, and a related lawsuit related to Disney World’s Passholders.
Dumbo Magnet
But restricting capacity further may not be Disney’s only option. During the February 2023 earnings call, Iger also pointed out that Disney has seen good results when they “invest in increasing capacity” in the parks, like through the building of new lands.
Iger noted that they have other opportunities for increasing capacity and that he has spoken to Josh D’Amaro (Chairman of Disney Parks, Experiences, and Products) to see “where we can invest in them in the parks to increase capacity while — by preserving guest satisfaction.”
Pandora
Iger also discussed how they reduced capacity during the holiday season to improve the guest experience while still maintaining profitability. Iger shared that they’d “continue to look at opportunities like that, which is essentially to simply get more creative in terms of managing the capacity that we have.”
From the sound of things, the Park Pass system could be sticking around for quite a while, but Disney may also be looking to manage capacity (and potentially increase it) by making other changes too. And the Park Pass system itself could be changing, based on recent adjustments we’ve seen announced at Disney World for Annual Passholders and D’Amaro’s comments on them.
We’ll continue to keep an eye out for updates on this situation and let you know.
Click here to see what Iger had to say about Disney’s theme park pricing
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Just another example of how Disney has lost its magic. Sad.
My husband and I are annual pass holders and also own a total of 320 points at Animal Kingdom through DVC. We paid to buy into DVC and continue to pay Maintenance fees annually. We also own a week of timeshare at the Sheraton Vistana (just offsite). We travel from Rhode Island at least 3 times a year, often bringing family and friends with us, to do the parks. We have been coming to Disney World since they opened in 1971 and have spent a staggering amount of money on Disney property. Please do not tell me that the family from Denver who comes once every 5 years spends more – not even close! We don’t even rent a car when we come. Everything is done on Disney property. Furthermore, as we are known as Disney experts back home, we help others plan Disney vacations. We are Disney ambassadors! Your thinking is very misguided!
Annual passholders are the backbone of Disney and they seem to forget, we paid a good amount for that annual pass. We don’t all live in Florida and come every day, which is what your indicating. Many annual passholders are DVC, and we paid dearly for that also. Disney seems to want to take the magic out of a trip all for the sake of their profits.
We are Passholders. We spend between 30 and 50 nights a year at WDW. Not only rooms, but restaurants, shopping at Springs, golf, boating and all the many other added activities. Your assumption about the family on a once a year or in a lifetime trip is so far off the mark, maybe we should just sell our DVC points, not renew our passes and spend our $20-$30k a year somewhere else. We come to Disney because yes it’s only a few hours away, the quality (used to be) consistent. Now, we are starting to feel unwanted aside from being a never ending source of revenue for the parks. Keep treating your best customers badly, and your Passholder problem will go away…
Getting tired of lack of appreciation for annual Passholders, I guess my 4K for three days about 3-4 times a year for two of us plus Passholders price is not worth it to them, rethinking future renewal
Maybe Disney should actually track what an Annual Passholder spends at Disney before trying to limit us. We go 3-4 times a year for several days. We also do more sit down restaurants etc. Many passholder also have out of town relatives or friends who spend as we do. If Disney were to allow us to use our credit card with our band or pass then maybe they would see we actually spend more in a year than the one time Disney visitor. They might actually bite the hand that feeds them as more passholder will opt to visit less and spend their food budget outside of Disney. Most visitors, who are not pass holders, will look at their Disney vacation as a once in a lifetime or once every five year trip and Disney will be begging their pass holders to come and enjoy as your are the essence of our business. Once again corporate people making corporate decisions to bump up their profits. Not what Walt had in mind for middle class people
Not all annual passholders are like Iger’s reference, so he shouldn’t generalize. We are and have been annual passholders since we are DVC members but we also stay on property, eat at nice restaurants and buy souvenirs. But since we live up North we don’t go as often as locals.
Getting the Flordia AP price used to be a reason to get DVC, not anymore, all timeshares are now equal ripoffs.
So once again it seems like Disney is trying to push out Pass Holders just because they can’t make more money off of them. As if Pass holders don’t make ANY money at the parks. Except for the guest who stay at the Disney Hotels, it should be first come first serve to all guest attending. Too bad for you if you arrive after 12:00 pm and the park is sold out. Besides, to my understanding, Disneyland has hardly ever reached maximum capacity where they had to shut the gates because they reached the park limit.
But don’t blame the pass holders. Disney created this Monster back in 1982 when they introduced the passes because daily park attendance was low. Disneyland used to actually be closed on Mondays and Tuesdays up until 1985 because attendance was so low during the week. So after the passes came in to affect, attendance continued to increased over the years. So in my opinion, the pass holders pretty mach help out the parks growth over the decades. But now they are being kicked to the curb and treated like an unwanted step-child because they say they use it as a “personnel playground” and don’t spend as much money as a family from Denver. Well maybe pass holders do, but that’s because they pay a high price to do so. You can’t have it both ways Disney.
We visit WDW on average 6 times a year. We stay when available at Boardwalk in concierge level our stay is usually 4 or 5 nights. . We avoid July and August, too hot. We avoid major holidays, too crowded. Exception Christmas we never miss coming mid month. Our favorite eating places include: Flying Fish, Yachtsman Steak House, Natcouses, LeCeller, California grill and others. We have been Fla resident passholders for years. My first visit was in April 1972, I’m not 88 and still in love with the Magic which is delivered mostly by the vast members. Thank you.
So, let’s see. Disney may limit annual passholders. Those of us who don’t come down for 5 to 7 days. We come when we want. In the last 12 months, this is probably my 20th day at least. Probably more. I’m at Epcot as I write this. We’ve been eating and drinking our way around the park. Aren’t we spending money? Granted, we didn’t have to buy a ticket,but we’re still spending money. We sometimes, as DVC members, stay at a resort for the night. Is he going to stop us from doing that? We’re not spending money on the resort. Isn’t that the whole idea of laying out all the money for DVC? Sometimes, the ideas of the powers that be really confuse and anger. I’ll continue to come and spend money here. We’re allowed 5 days. I use one then book another. Maybe the annual passholders are the ones the company should be focusing on since we’re there more.
It has never been an issue for me at WDW but I have been treated very rudely by annual pass holders at DLR. A woman cut in front of me to get the last spot on the tram to the parking lot and told me it was okay because she was a season pass holder . I have been pushed out of line when trying to make reservations for Blue Bayou etc. So I don’t feel too bad for them.
Disney definitely has a problem in managing part attendance. Capacity is a function of the park ability to breath by putting guests in motion within the park. The capacity may be augmented by attractions being open or closed to eat up park capacity. The problem Disney has is not with capacity, but with thru-put. To cure the capacity problem that is easy, build more parks, shopping/dining environments or other attractions in addition to the current mix. More capacity leads to fewer guests In the short term.
I beg to differ on annual Passes! You may use Disney as your “Pay Ground” if you live in Florida! If you have an Annual Pass and live out of State as I did for over 20 years I spent way more money than some one who buys a once trip ticket for their family! I took 2 or 3 per year sometimes for business or pleasure, with friends, family or grandkids. Stayed on property, went to special events, character dining, and tours! Bought TONS of stuff that had to be mailed. Rented a car and had to pay parking at resorts & park alot! Got so DISCOURAGED LAST year I did not renew when prices went so High! You finally priced me OUT! I Assure you I spent way MORE than and others that live out if state that some people! So don’t LUMP all Annual pass holders in to the Play Ground Ground group! We we travel to Disney we have to come and stay and spend LOTS of money! We also have to PAY for our PASS up front! We can’t Pay It out like residents in Florida. You get out thousands of dollars all at once! When I started my pass it was less than $400! Now over $1500! No wonder one retired person can’t afford the Magic anymore! It is not there!
if Disney is now blatantly saying they dont want passholders, then they can just cancel the payment contracts, its not worth their attitude, we spend plenty, too much in fact. Its time to take the money elsewhere where your wanted and better value for the money.
We are passholders..we live 6hrs from WDW…we visit 3x a year…we stay on property EVERY visit and our length of stay is a week or more…pretty sure there are other passholders who do not live down the street or around the block from WDW..so passholders not spending a good amount money is NOT a fair statement…jus say’n
What is the value of an annual passholder who is out-of-state and visits twice a year for an average of 15 to 20 days?
Absolutely ridiculous they do not sell APs to DVC members. 900 points at 4 resorts. Where am I going on vacation?? Tell me. Stop ripping me off already. I come for 20 to 30 days a year. Last August 20 days. 6 nights in December. 6 nights next week and 18 days in August 2023. 50 days in 13 months. Who does that? I SPEND when I go. Iger, start selling Annual Passes or leave. I don’t need you to pay yourself millions off my money.
I’m sick of hearing Chapek/Igers remarks about Disney annual Passholders . Let me remind you buddy-ho we the loyal DVC and annual Passholders will spend in five years two to three times the amount of $ spent by that family that come every five years. Your remarks are disgusting and disrespectful to the core group of patrons that are true Loyal lovers of Disney. In fact we were there in the dark days of Covid when others weren’t. If we are such an inconvenience I’m sure Universal, SeaWorld and other Orlando attractions will welcome us while we stay away on Disney properties.
Back in the day most normal people went to Disney one time a year…most people did not get 30 plus days off…which is what it sounds like most of the pass holders now have. Everyone is talking about all the multiple trips they take to Disney. Has no one noticed the issue is capacity?! THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE THERE. Everyone comes so many times there is no downtime anymore. Besides the fact, that all the posts are complaining, yet they keep coming?! Disney doesn’t need you anymore. Disney is a business and the bottom line is money. If you all keep coming and giving them money, they can do what they want. Only money talks. I’m not saying it is right at all…but it seems to be the American way.
I am an out of state pass holder. $1300 payable upon purchase. I spend 2 1/2 months in the winter about 1/2 an hour away. I go to the parks plenty of days and many times have a sit down meal. I also purchase many souvenirs and food at the festivals. Last year, I stayed at Disney 3 other times for around a week each time. Don’t try to tell me that pass holders don’t spend enough money there.
MR. CHAPEK: “…someone who … stays for 5 to 7 days is marginally more valuable to the business than someone … on an annual pass” because … annual pass [holders] may “stay [a day or two and consume] less merchandise and food and beverage.”
(But Mr. Chapek has departed. Things are getting BETTER, right? Wasn’t there some mumbling about how people have been feeling alienated by pricing decisions and strategies?)
MR. IGER: … “shift [the] mix…from annual pass holders to people who may come just once in a lifetime or once.” Iger said that standard ticket guests (**not annual passholders**), “tend to be good customers of ours because of their per-cap spending when they’re there.”
MR. IGER: Iger shared that some of the changes they’ve made in shifting the mix **from Annual Passholders to other guests** have helped Disney “manage capacity without…doing too much damage to the bottom line.” (emphasis mine)
Wow. Just… wow. Gee, thanks, guys. Headline says it all, doesn’t it!
(No knocks to you, DFB –we LOVE you. It’s a perfect headline. You’re the “bearer” here, not the “bad news.”)
I’m SO glad the bottom line has been helped by pushing AP Holders further “out of the mix” so you can “manage capacity” better off OUR backs. Despite what an Annual Pass is defined and marketed as.
Do you understand HOW insulting your comments sound to APHs? Hurtful, dismissive, ungrateful, even?
I guess you don’t care. You keep saying it, following your words with actions that match. I’m the stupid one sticking around. You’ve been crystal clear.
Funny, though, one might say comments like this are ALIENATING to some APH.
You know, how you were concerned that some of your pricing practices were alienating customers? (Those GOOD customers, who come once. In their life. Ever.)
Yes, I believe I can state that it feels ALIENATING, as a devoted APH, to be talked about like a problem that REALLY needs to be swept out the gates and have my park time severely curtailed.
Despite what ANNUAL PASSES are advertised as, and sold as.
But we need to be shifted out!! Because apparently, I’m tromping all over people, kicking the kids and spitting in the faces of one-time-visitors… just RUINING their vacation. (Are there APHs who have been holding out on me? Do some of you guys get together and do this in… like… mobs? I mean, not PROMISING that I’d participate but… I’d like to know. Clearly we are a PRETTY bad bunch.)
But Mr. Iger, Mr. D’Amaro!
Telling us all about the exciting wonderful changes coming! And how you don’t want to alienate your one-time customers?
What a RELIEF to hear one thing didn’t change, and apparently WON’T. Mr. Chapek’s deep respect for and heart-felt opinions of APHs. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Keep these comments coming, and we’ll hardly notice the Old Bob is gone.
Me? I’m one of those LESS-valuable REPEAT customers, spending *over a month* in your parks and resorts. Every. Single. Year. Year after year after year. You know, the ones who need to be shifted OUT of your ideal mix. Because… wait, wait, let me see if I’ve got this right…
Because we, as APHs, DON’T SPEND ENOUGH MONEY ON DISNEY WORLD.
Sorry, tried to get that out without choking but couldn’t quite. Excuse me. I’m getting a bit verklempt.
We clearly don’t spend as much as someone who comes to WDW once in their life, for FIVE TO SEVEN DAYS.
So yes, I said over a month. Thirty plus (30+) days. AT LEAST. Every. single. year. (Aw, we’re probably why stock dipped that month, what with our drag on the bottom line. Sorry about that. Why don’t you keep the next magnets you were going to send us, since those are clearly so expensive.)
Used to be 55+ days and we were always working toward 75.
Can’t afford that now. Price hikes, incredibly insulting nickel-and-diming, slashing of already heavily reduced (and at times farcical) “benefits.” Genie+ taking over Fast Pass. But hey… Genie PLUS adds $1000 PLUS for our 30-plus day stay? No worries, right?! Since its hard for us old people with disabilities to stand in line for over an hour at a time, maybe we’ll just be in the parks less! Successfully shifted out of the mix right there!
But these numbers are fascinating to me =
Customer A: Stays 5 to 7 days. Once, ever.
Customer APH: Stays 55+ to 75 days. Every year, ever. (On property.)
Yeah, see, it seems like a no-brainer… which is the customer who probably spends more money on your business.
But hey, ask my wife, I’m not so good at math. I’m a gardener.
Even now, no longer able to do 55+, down to ONLY a *guaranteed* 30+ days EVERY year… STILL seems like we’d be a good financial bet? Like we’d be customers that would be worth APPRECIATING? At LEAST *as much as* you appreciate your one-time short-stay customers.
You know, even my *grocery store* thinks it’s a good idea to reward me for choosing them every time? Over and over. Reward me with things like consistent discounts and benefits that aren’t reduced EVERY SINGLE YEAR. To keep me coming back. Sometimes… sometimes my benefits even GROW the LONGER I stay with one place as a customer. It’s something about… what’s that word… LOYALTY! That’s it.
Customer loyalty.
[And not ONCE have they ever given me a magnet, praise the grocery store gods. I don’t have room for any.]
So I hate to be the one to break the bad news, Mr. Iger, but yes, sad to tell you that, unfortunately, these two AP Holders? My wife and I? Who live in Vermont (24 hours away) and invested in DVC (oops! more profit drain!!)? We DO spend more than one or two days in the parks and resorts.
Every. Single. Year.
Because this World your business runs? Yeah. It’s *that* important to us. (OK, to ME, and my wife loves me VERY VERY MUCH.) It means that much to me.
We used to do our 30-day stretch on DVC points, longer if the season was right (we came in the “slower” seasons), and then when our points ran out we PAID for the rest of the days we were in WDW, at other Disney resorts.
That’s right. DVCers! Who invested back when we could, because we knew this day was coming. We actually ALSO paid for rooms in cash! Usually stayed at All Star Music (our favorite A.S.) because for cash trips, after investing in DVC earlier and APs every year, the value resorts were what we could afford for staying on cash. (We loved All Star Music. And their food. We wish it were still “a value” – we’d still be staying more than 30 days.)
(But you probably wouldn’t want us longer than 30 days anyway. We’re just yearly repeat customers who are guaranteed income.)
Oh, you thought we SAVED money by getting an AP?! [falls over laughing]
Tell that to my wife.
She’ll laugh you out of the house while throwing magic bands at you. (Those things bounce.) Then tell you how any “saved” money ends up back in Disney World.
But I get the sense that maybe you guys thought Mr. Chapek was right?
That most APHs who pay in excess of **$2,800 for tickets EVERY YEAR** to get into your World, only “drop in” for “one- or two-day stays” and don’t… consume? Was that it? We don’t consume enough?
You know, I’m SO confused! Probably my age or my disability. But sometimes I honestly can’t tell – are you guys saying we’re in the parks *too much* or *not enough*?!
Well, either way, Mr. Chapek was wrong, just so you know. When WE spend $2,800 on tickets? We tend to use those tickets for more than random one- or two-day stays. Maybe you hear “DVC” and you think wealthy. HA!
(One of the reasons we bought into DVC was the idea of benefits that we thought would continue to help keep costs lower as we aged and our income decreased. HA again! JOKES ON US! I mean with fantastic insults – I mean benefits – like “take a whole FOUR DOLLARS off this hard ticket event that costs well over $100!!” I know we’re a drag on the bottom line… can you really AFFORD that almost 4% discount? That’s actually more like 2% when you start looking at the fact that the event is in fact OVER $100 and I’m just using $100 so the math is easier.)
But likely, you just don’t WANT DVCs at those events, because most of us are probably APHs, and you need to SHIFT THAT MIX. Go you. It’s working. I got so insulted, literally, by calling that RIDICULOUS practice an actual DVC benefit that I stopped going to the Christmas and Halloween parties years ago.
Oh, and yes, DVC, and yes, $2,800 for our tickets.
See, you did away with the discount Annual Pass *with no black-out dates* for DVC members, and we always stay during Christmas. It’s one of the most important seasons for me to be in The World, since my dad died. (Remember how I said this crazy place MEANS SOMETHING to me? Yeah. Wasn’t kidding.)
So if we want our *one last* AP Christmas without black-outs in December 2023? We were stuck with The Big One! THANKS GUYS!! That was a GREAT surprise this year when our new “DVC benefits” were announced!!
But you’ll be THRILLED to know. THE PLAN HAS WORKED. You’ve successfully shifted the mix for one of the busiest times of the year.
Two fewer APHs will be cluttering up your parks during the holidays after 2023. Because this is the last year we’ll be buying the big pass; we could barely buy it this year. In the future we just won’t go into the parks during some of our favorite/most important times anymore.
Good strategy, guys. It’s working.
Oh! I just realized! Three APHs! We’ve been bringing my sister with us for two years now, and she just became a new passholder last year! So, there you go! You’ve successfully *SHIFTED* three Orange birds completely out of the *MIX* with one toss of the verbal stones! Hope that helps the bottom line.
Add in more black-out dates next year and you’ll probably be able to just “shift us out of the mix” completely. We’re almost all the way out. My wife is ready. I’m the one holding on. One more little nudge will likely do it.
But that answers my earlier question, because I guess you’ve probably settled on “we’re in the parks TOO MUCH” as opposed to not enough.
Because we don’t CONSUME ENOUGH while we’re there to balance out all the space we take up. If I understand your complicated corporate mentality… you believe we don’t buy food, or drink, or merchandise, like those folks who DO who “tend to be good customers for you”?
The one-time trippers, who apparently CONSUME so much every single day of their 5 to 7 day once-in-a-lifetime trips that even years-worth loyal customer spending falls by the wayside in comparison. (Because amount of spending is what it’s all about, right?)
Okay.
Oh, by the way? You may be surprised to learn. APHs?
We do, in fact, have to EAT!
I KNOW! Who would think?! In the course of *a month or two* in the parks and resorts we CONSUME food and drink there. CONSTANTLY. (Because hey, you may not realize? But we also have to eat *every day.* Like people who come to WDW only once in their lives. For seven days.)
I hear that some of us APHs? Even have FAVORITE Disney foods that we’ve cultivated over the years and buy them repeatedly when we’re in WDW!
So much so, that someone in your corporation caught on! And thought of a way to make EXTRA money off it!
And started making THINGS to buy that LOOK like a Dole Whip, or a Mickey Pretzel, or a Mickey Waffle or a Mickey Bar!
Yeah, those types of “consumer goods” that people who come for 7 days once in their life will DEFINITELY buy by the boxful… after having one Dole Whip, if they even have one. (Or maybe they’ll look at the Mickey Waffle ears and not be able to figure out what that yellow thing is that’s supposed to be butter. It took ME long enough to figure it out.)
As opposed to having had them every year for so many years you’ve lost count, and always trying to get to MK as soon as possible to get your FIRST DOLE WHIP of the trip. And who KNOW that Dole Whip is only REALLY Dole Whip in a few places, that the Disney Springs Dole Whip and the Animal Kingdom Dole Whip are slushy instead of creamy like the REAL THING. (Thought we wouldn’t notice, didn’t you? I’m going to take a WILD guess that the slushy Dole Whip is cheaper to make. See, I can get used to this corporate math!)
Or maybe those one-time visitors will only have a Dole Whip in Animal Kingdom which is criminal because they’ll go “What’s the big deal about THIS?”
Anyway… all of which to say is that I THINK someone in the Disney Corp figured out that RETURN customers who come SPECIFICALLY for favorite foods? BUY THINGS. We… um… CONSUME, in your corporate board room lingo!
Because seriously? A one-time visitor is going to be obsessed enough to buy a DOLE WHIP PILLOW?
Me thinks that product? MIGHT be aimed at APHs, as prime *consumers* of it.
Us return customers who come down here for the FOOD. We want to try ALL the new things that AJ and her team take pictures of and show us. (If you guys DON’T know what a commercial benefit DFB is to you guys, you NEED TO.) (But I suspect you know. Just like I think, somewhere, probably, in the back office, or the marketing department, SOMEONE knows that return customers are IMPORTANT customers.)
Because my wife and I? We’re foodies. And we’ve talked to a LOT of APHs, online, in the parks, at the resorts (AT RESTAURANTS even!) and we hear that some of the other APHs are foodies, too! Not all of us, I’m sure. But we’re heeeere!
You know what foodies do a LOT of? EAT. Food is an experience as well as a necessity.
In case you haven’t heard, FOOD *IS* A THEME PARK.
We love to try new things and new restaurants and may even have a drink with dinner (okay, and MAYBE with breakfast, too, the Grand Café has the best Mimosa and AJ is right when she calls GFC one of THE most under-rated restaurants on property) and we ALWAYS order dessert.
(That often with breakfast, too, now that I think about it.)
We’re the eaters who love to find something new down in Disney Springs at 9pm at a food cart, AND love the experience of going to a table service meal at Topolino’s. (Which, btw, dinner was AMAZING. Breakfast? Was horrible. REALLY horrible. How is that possible? Staff was fantastic both times, and the manager actually made breakfast “right” with us, and that counted for a lot. Sorry… foodie digression.)
But hey, I hear you. Most APHs who aren’t foodies, probably don’t eat at all. Or drink.
I’m sure if they’re there for one or two or even MORE days, and if by chance they DO need to eat (unlikely) they drive off property for every meal at somewhere less expensive over on Irlo Bronson.
But merchandise. You’ve got to be right on that one? Right?! CLEARLY guests who stay for five to seven days once in their lives hoover out those gift stores!! One of every kind of ears! ALL the clothes!
Hmmm, but I do wonder. APHs aren’t likely to be those… you know… what are they called…? You KNOW! What is it, what is it….
COLLECTORS!! That’s it!
COLLECTORS! Of Disney merchandise?
Collectors who buy new merchandise in the parks CONSTANTLY (because some things are only available in the parks and WE WANT THEM) and the resorts and Disney Springs? And go CRAZY for things like those ***itty-bitty Starbucks mugs with the parks printed on them*** and want THEM ALL? Every single one? (WHY must those things be so CUTE? Curse you, tiny mugs!)
But… nah. That’s silly.
I’m sure there aren’t any APHs who have walls in their homes decorated with mouse ears.
And Disney art on the walls that aren’t covered with mouse ears, that they’ve bought in the parks and resorts.
And closets full of Disney-themed clothes that we buy in the parks and resorts. Clothes that get worn out because we wear them so often, so we do in fact replace them and buy new ones too. More than ONE T-Shirt EVER certainly. And I’m going to get a shirt for the next movie I love, or the next festival I go to, AND the next Grand Floridian shirt (even if my old one(s) isn’t (aren’t) worn out) because THAT was our first Home Resort and that still brings tears to my eyes.
Or five… six? eight? (DON’T tell my wife I’ve got her convinced I’m only on my fourth) Disney HAT and still looking for just the right one?
No, you’re right. It’s much more realistic to think that APHs came to WDW once, oh… eight… or eighteen years ago?… bought the souvenirs they wanted, and that was it. Forever. While they came back to the parks year after year after year.
That must be why APH/DVC discounts/random treats keep falling lower and lower, then disappearing completely. Because we’re such terrible consumers.
Why 20% APH restaurant discounts are now all 10%.
But don’t worry! If we have our AP card out *and* our DVC virtual card out, waitstaff are always quick to tell us “DISCOUNTS DON’T STACK YOU KNOW.”
Oh yes! We’re aware. Been doing this for years now! We ABSOLUTELY know we are NO LONGER worth a 20% discount! At ANY restaurant ANYwhere on property, apparently.
We’ve heard THAT loud and clear. I only have both cards out because I honestly DON’T KNOW anymore which restaurants even HAVE discounts for APHs *or* DVCs, because there’s been so many changes and reductions in bennies. Are you one of the ones that gives 10% discounts if we’re in your place before… uh…. 3pm… 2pm?… on a Monday through a Thursday?
[Yeah, I’m looking at you, Sprinkles. REALLY appreciate all THAT confusion for that huge 10% discount.]
[But hey, I believe CakeBake is going to be open next time we’re down so… maybe we’ll have another option to try for gourmet cake. Hey, maybe they won’t have any discount at all! HA! THAT will feel more like an authentic APH experience by then, and we’ll definitely choose them over you.]
So yeah, when I have both IDs out? I’m really just rolling the dice. Yes? Discount on one of these? No? Neither? Okay.
Remember Tables in Wonderland? THAT felt like one of the *really nice benefits* for those of us who spent SO much time in Disney World.
It’s gone, but yeah. I liked that one. 🙂 That one made me feel appreciated AND got me out more — buying more food, more alcohol, in the lounges and restaurants, than I would have otherwise. Kind of a win/win, I thought.
But… I guess not. That’s me with my bad math again! Must have been another APH *BIG WIN*/ Disney Bottom Line *BIG LOSE*!
So weird, because I was SURE that was the way those discount loyalty programs are supposed to be? To encourage people who go to WDW MORE OFTEN to go to MORE RESTAURANTS often?
As opposed to REDUCING those benefits, which not only encourages us NOT to go, but makes us angry and hurt, too?
(We’ve certainly been DISCOURAGED from going back to Sprinkles, for instance. I know, the Disney Springs places in particular likely set their own discount, “not your fault.” Interesting that EVERYONE is down to 10% now. Everywhere. Even the old timer 20%ers as far as I can tell.)
After accepting so many outrageous price hikes year after year, and the benefit reductions, I guess *incredibly devoted return customers* are willing to take the price hits every year, for things that mean so much to us.
Because we love this ridiculous, fabulous place SO MUCH. Because Disney maybe changed our lives in some deeply personal, positive way and we’ll be forever grateful. (See above… always come down at Christmas, despite it being the most expensive.)
And instead of all those price hikes, it’s this that’s sawing away at my ties to The World.
Getting insulted a few dozen times. (Who’s counting anymore.) Getting told we not only aren’t good customers, but we NEED TO GET OUT OF THE PARKS MORE. Getting every LITTLE benefit reduced or removed.
How about that. I guess a little appreciation does go a long way.
But hey, I hear loyal repeat business just isn’t as lucrative as one-time business, so who cares.
The cost of all the magnets alone is surely dragging down any potential profit from the AP program.
Want to hear something really funny?! Know why we bought into DVC and got Annual Passes in the first place?
(I heard you say “no,” Mr. Iger! Well, you’re not reading this, so tough! I’ll tell you anyway! This is all just an exercise in exorcising MY demons.)
SO WE COULD BRING MORE PEOPLE TO DISNEY WORLD WITH US!
What a cosmic joke, right?!
Repeat annual visitors, bringing some of those one-time visitors who are SO much more lucrative than us repeat annual visitors!!
By the way, the people we bring with us? Wouldn’t be AT Disney without us. They CAN’T AFFORD IT.
So they don’t make it to the parks, stores, resorts, or restaurants, without us inviting and encouraging, and sponsoring their lodging with us. So they have some funds to have FUN and… maybe even EAT and SHOP while they’re here on vacation.
Just a guess, but you guys probably make a little more money “per capita” off me and my wife, even as APHs, than you do off guests who DON’T COME AT ALL because they can’t afford to, without our help as APHs/DVCs.
My math may be bad, but even I think you make more than $0.00 off us.
But it sounds like APHs/DVCs might actually help BRING IN one-time trippers that are so much more lucrative! So we might be *useful* customers to try to keep because of that, right? As opposed to being taken for granted and insulted and showered in magnets, and “shifted out of the mix” to manage capacity?
No? Not useful? Okay.
You know best. You know how we “drop in” for “one or two days” and get into a park for FREE… oh wait… HEY! WOW! We DID pay for our APH park tickets, didn’t we?! I MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN PAYING IN EXCESS OF $2,800 FOR TWO PEOPLE!
I think… bad at math remember… that brings in like TWICE the ticket profit of at least two people on one 7-day stay? WHOA. *MIND.BLOWN* Maybe we COUNT toward yearly income after all? (Yeah, but the magnets…)
But you know US best! We hit ONE park, eat a quick Mickey pretzel (without cheese – it’s cheaper), MAYBE get a soda (but *probably* bring our own water, us cheapskates!), watch a FREE parade, ride Space Mountain 15 TIMES IN A ROW!
“That’s RIGHT, I’M APH, suckers! OUT OF MY WAY! I’m going again!”
Oh wait, that’s right. Being APH doesn’t get me unlimited rides without standing in line, ahead of one-time-visitors, or anything like that, does it?
Okay, well, FINE, we ride Space Mountain ONCE.
But then we are OUT of there! Don’t try to sell ME a collectible popcorn bucket on my way out, buddy! (Oh, wait, dang… I don’t have that one yet. Hang on, I don’t usually bring my CREDIT CARD when I come to Disney World because I’m an APH. You know how it is.)
Toss another magnet at me to shut me up. My fridge is about to fall over and I think… three more? will probably do the trick.
Interesting how your comments about your one-time visitors aren’t even particularly appreciative. Hey you guys, you TEND to be customers! Aren’t you glad you saved up to come?! Remember, you are MARGINALLY MORE VALUABLE than the returnees from year after year!
Yes, I can see how “valuable” those one-time visitors are.
About as valuable as an Annual Passholder feels, about now, I’d say.
But don’t ask me. I’m bad at math.
Hey AJ, and company,
I know. My ridiculous comment that I just sent through is WAY way too long. (And probably HIGHLY too cranky and sarcastic for public consumption.)
I’m sorry, but it really DID give me an opportunity to get out some of my incredibly hurt feelings.
Sigh.
We love you guys. 🙂
best,
P. AB and Mrs. P. DE
I have been an annual passholder for quite a long time and frankly I don’t like the way Disney has been treating us passholders lately. Just because we have an annual pass doesn’t mean we don’t spend quite a bit of money while there. We still spend quite a bit of money there! We love Disney World in spite of it’s faults. All of Disney’s parks are so damn overcrowded it is hard to enjoy anymore. You are rapidly taking away the magic. We go up to Disney World at least 15 times each year because although a lot of the magic is gone and now overpriced, we still love it. Don’t make it any more difficult for loyal passholders just because of those who are not passholders who maybe only come once every year or never! If you add up my trips over the year we spend probably just as much or if not more than those who go up there once, or never. The pass reservation system sucks, but at least now passholders don’t need a reservation after 2pm soon. Now lower capacity and bring back the fast pass!! passholders are the loyal backbone of the Disney parks!
P. AB’s loooooonnnnngg comment was one of the best rants I’ve ever seen on this or any other blog. I read and enjoyed every word. I will just add my own two cents: Corporate Disney needs to be careful how they say things where the public can hear them.
I spent 20 days here in the summer. Two 10 day passes. For four people. Six days in December. 6 day park hoppers, four people. I am here right now, 3-6 day park hoppers. Spent over $1200 on “stuff”, with 3 full days to go. ABSOLUTELY will not buy Genie+. Never have. Never will. Oh yeh, 900 DVC points. Stop it already. Sell me the Annual Passes I need and stop ripping me off. You get and will continue to get enough of my money.
DVC and APH with thoughts after reading the other replies. I have been a DVC member since November 1991, and for those of us who bought DVC in OKW in the beginning we remember that each time we stayed in OKW for the first 5 years that everyone in our party received a passhopper pass for each day there. The days when our business and money was wanted to make DVC a financial success. Those were the days. Living 6 hours from WDW now allows us to visit more often than when we lived in Maine which is a bonus to us. And being APH allows us to either choose to visit the parks while there or enjoy the resorts and Disney Springs. We have brought family & friends with us to WDW all of whom spend money on food, drink & souvenirs. Loving the magic of Disney is dimming a bit. My last visit was just 2 weeks ago where I visited both EPCOT & MK; ate at several Disney Spring restaurants & visited the bars at the hotels on the monorail route. Also spent a fair amount of money on items for Grandchildren and also waited in line with an estimated 100 other friends at Gideon’s Bakery for the infamous cookies! And now it sounds as if those of us who have supported the ‘Magic’ in many ways are less necessary than those who come to visit once a year. Will need to put some serious thought into renewing AP.